Mother Wounds, Narcissists & Women Over 50: What No One Talks About

Many women in their 40s, 50s, and beyond find themselves asking the same painful question....“How did I end up here again?”

In this episode of Healing Forward with Barbara La Pointe, I sit down with psychotherapist, soul-healer, and life-guidance coach Nathalie Volan to explore how unhealed childhood wounds—especially mother wounds—can quietly shape our adult relationships.

We discuss how unresolved emotional trauma can create patterns that leave women vulnerable to narcissistic, emotionally abusive, manipulative, or toxic romantic and business relationships.

If you've ever struggled with:
✨ People pleasing
✨ Repeating painful relationship patterns
✨ Narcissistic abuse recovery
✨ Difficulty setting boundaries
✨ Emotional exhaustion
✨ Toxic friendships or business partnerships
✨ Feeling unseen, unheard, or never “enough”

Healing doesn’t begin with blaming ourselves. It begins with understanding the root.

About Nathalie Volan
Natalia Volanberg, PhD, is a psychotherapist and Clarity Breathwork practitioner who helps women—especially in midlife—heal from narcissistic and abusive relationships. With a global background spanning Russia, Canada, Asia, Europe, and now Mexico, she specializes in helping women retrain their nervous systems to break free from repeating harmful patterns in love and business. 

Nathalies Education:
• Masters in Counselling (Monash University, Australia)
• Psyche Embodied residential workshops with Marion Woodman, Jungian analyst, teacher, lecturer, and author (New College, University of Toronto) 2004–2005
• Sexuality Studies / History (HonsBA, University of Toronto, Canada) 2000–2005
• Jungian Studies courses with Ann Yeoman, Jungian Analyst and author (New College, University of Toronto) 2003–2005
• History of Psychiatry / Psychiatric Illness courses with Edward Shorter
• Pre-medical studies in Chemistry, Biology, and Physics (Seneca College, Toronto, Canada) 1998–1999

Connect with Barbara La Pointe | Healing Forward

🎙 Healing Forward Podcast
📩 barbaralapointe@gmail.com
📱 WhatsApp: +52 322 101 8268
📺 Subscribe: @HealingForwardPodcast

#MotherWound #NarcissisticAbuse #HealingForward #EmotionalHealing #CodependencyRecovery #TraumaHealing #WomenOver50 #ToxicRelationships #SelfWorth #InnerChildHealing #BarbaraLaPointe #inheritedfamilytrauma #motherwound #patterns #women

Ask

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Why do so many women, especially in midlife, find themselves repeating the very same painful patterns in love, even in business? Well, sometimes they've even done the inner work and they clearly understand what they don't want to experience anymore. Oh, well, we're gonna dive deep into exactly this today with our very next special guest, Natalia. Um, Natalia Vollenberg. Hi, I'm so thrilled that she's joining us today on Healing Forward, has a PhD, and she is a psychotherapist, very passionate on the subject, and she helps women uh heal from narcissistic and abusive relationships. She has a global background, spanning Russia, Canada, Europe, Asia, and now she's in Mexico, and she really speaks to helping women retrain their nervous systems to finally break free from these harmful and hurtful patterns. Welcome, Natalia.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Thank you so much, Barbara. It's just such a delight to be here with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Oh yeah, it's really lovely. And I have to, I have to say, I usually research my guests or I know them, and I always feel into them before they come uh and into this space that we've created. And I can I just really sense that you're very passionate about this and where um about the subject, and it's such an important subject. What fuels your passion?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

You know, um now that I'm in Portavall, and um I was really fortunate to forge new friendships, especially with women, and I have witnessed so many women who come here to um, you know, who are ready to reinvent themselves in a new and beautiful location, and yet, you know, wherever you go, here you are, they bring the same patterns with them, and even though they have done usually so much work, but in so many cases they end up unfortunately falling in into the same hole, and knowing that you know, here we go again, how long is it going to take me to come out, and just really wasting a lot of time, energy, and you know, sometimes financial resources on a relationship, a friendship which didn't really deliver what it promised. So I'm really passionate about helping women because many of them end up suffering in isolation. There is a lot of shame that is attached to, you know, kind of not even listening to your own intuition because we always know, we see the red flags, and yet we ignore um what feels right to us, and we make a story, we excuse the person's behavior. So I'm just really, really passionate about supporting these women, and if I can shorten their time in that unpleasant hall, I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Yes, well, I love that because you know when we go through such a trauma, uh, it's an experience, but it doesn't have to be a life sentence, but we do need support because women do suffer, and these types of relationships can really set us back years. As you know, I have a group that's very active, um, and what I've noticed in this group is that the pattern repeats, and sometimes it's not the first relationship, it's the second or third, and that I think that carries more shame as well, and so we keep coming back to this repeated pattern, Natalia. So why are we repeating this harmful pattern?

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Well, unfortunately, many of us experienced um childhoods that were not really optimal for our growth and development. I can speak to myself. Um, I you know, my parents were born after the war, so they were children of very traumatized parents who came back, um, you know, from the front. And at the time, you know, for all of those soldiers and veterans who were suffering from PTSD or complex PTSD, there were no tools. So they were acting out very unhealthy ways of being inside of their families, and usually um who was on the receiving end of that, you know, just dregulation, abuse, you know, ill mental health, and often, you know, drinking, it was the children. And the children got imprinted by very unhealthy ways of being, and because they were powerless and small, obviously, children cannot escape from their parents. So, and the conditioning that we receive within our families, especially before the age of seven, it really imprints very, very deeply into the nervous system, and it's kind of difficult to um change, especially when you don't really do any work on yourself. Because, first of all, you know, it's really important to become aware what is familiar to me, right? For example, I can say that in my case, my mother did not respect my boundaries, and I kept on trying to explain to her how hurtful her behavior was. And so later on in my relationships, I ended up attracting people who did not respect my boundaries, and instead of just walking away, I kept on explaining to them, you know, and now after having done many, many years of work on myself, I know that if somebody doesn't understand the basic privacy needs of somebody, you know, it's not my job to educate a 40-year-old, a 50-year-old man or woman that you know what we take kind of like as for granted as basic courtesy is something that I need to fight for in the relationship. So now I just know that it's not going to work, and without any drama, I walk away.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

I think I I think you know, boundaries is such an important subject because uh if we don't know how to form boundaries, we can't really protect or be safe. But many women really struggle with how can I create healthy boundaries? Privacy issues like what you said also. And if you don't know what it even looks like to create boundaries, and your boundaries through your life have been violated, where where can where did they begin?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Well, here I just want to kind of um to make an important differentiation. So there's a really big um difference when it comes to setting boundaries um in a relationship with a healthy person and an unhealthy, abusive, let's say narcissistic person. So in the first case, you know, in a healthy relationship, the person is listening to begin with, and noticing your discomfort. And in many cases, even before we say anything, the person who is actually listening and paying attention to us might notice that if we're not okay and can check in and can ask, is everything okay? Is maybe I did something wrong, because the empathy is there, the tunement is there, and so in this case, you know, it's not that difficult to specify and to say that you know, I didn't really feel comfortable in that particular situation. So would you mind, you know, when it happens, when we are, let's say, in public, you know, the next time, just don't make a comment about, let's say, my I don't know, family situation or my job search, and the person says, Oh, sorry, I didn't realize, okay, and this is the end, right? It's like that's it, you don't have to come back to this conversation ever again in a healthy relationship because the person's listening cares about your feelings and has empathy. But in a in the case of a narcissistic relationship, when we set boundaries, it's almost like we're telling this person which buttons to press. Oh wow, that's so sad exactly. So we need to be really careful, you know. So for example, um, let's say you know, somebody is in a narcissistic relationship and they cannot leave immediately, you know, because we can we keep on hearing this advice. Why don't you leave, just walk out? It's not an option for many people, especially women with children, or if if there is like a really serious business entanglement, and you know people just have to stay together for some time. So let's say you feel really triggered when this person starts to discuss politics, and you already know from experience that if you are to communicate this verbally, you know, the person will know what is unpleasant and will keep on going back to this issue, so you can just simply decide for yourself that if this behavior that I don't like starts, I'm just going to walk out. I'm going to say, oh, I'm going to go take a shower. I'm going to make an excuse and just to remove myself from the situation.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

I think that's an excellent strategy that we can use because you really can't. I love that you have compassion for women because we do often just hear, well, just leave, leave, exit the relationship. Another thing I've noticed is that often women don't have or are underprepared in preparing an exit strategy. So these strategies are helpful as you're making the exit. Now, let's back up a little bit, if it's okay with you, to this conditioning that you were talking about in early life. Um, because I know that you wanted to speak to the mother wound.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Yeah, so and as I'm thinking about this and you know, discussing this topic with you, I know that the Mother's Day is coming up, and it's kind of triggering for many people who actually have their mother wound, right? Because there are posts on social media everywhere. My mother is my hero, my mother is my best friend. And so for people who didn't actually have this experience, it can be quite upsetting, right? Because I think when it comes to mothering, when it comes to motherhood, we really expect mothers to get it right, right? The fathers, they kind of like they're a little bit off the hoop, but the mothers, you know, we really think that it's just something so special, so precious. So when we grow up with the mother who didn't really get it right, and even was abusive, it can be also very lonely and isolating. Because it's our primary relationship that sets it, you know, sets everything up, prepares us for just being in the world. And when we didn't really get a lot of nurturing from our mothers, we're starving. You know, we're starving for love, we're starving for attention, and what can happen is that we start looking for this attention in places where we shouldn't really be looking for it, you know, and um because we don't really know what it, you know, what it feels like in the body, in the heart, and the nervous system to be just on the receiving end of this unconditional love that is there for us, you know, just anytime. Doesn't matter what kind of mistakes you know we did and um what happened, we can just come to the mother and she's going to embrace us without any conditions. And you know, unfortunately, not everyone had experienced this in their childhood, and I find that it's really necessary, especially um I would say in midlife, if it didn't happen before, to finally form a healthy nurturing relationship. Usually it works especially well if it's a therapist who is there for the woman on a consistent basis and who can kind of like reinstall this mother archetype. You know, yes, because we need this, it's kind of like it's almost like a program, right? But like for those who didn't experience the nurturing mother, there is a distortion in the field and the body. That's why you tend to attract partnerships that are not really good for us. So I think that that's why it's important to be with somebody who is there modeling the healthy, you know, nurturing and attention that is not volatile, like in many, you know, narcissistic relationships or unpredictable. So I I find that you know, when people, women and men who come into therapy to work on their mother wound, um just their overall um well-being and even abundance in business increase exponentially when they work on the mother wound.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah, I think if this is resonating with you listening to this conversation, I invite you to subscribe and maybe make some comments. We'll be monitoring the comments live. But I think what you said is so important because sometimes we might have heard, oh, the mother wound, I've heard of that, or oh, what's that? And get really curious. But this to me is some of the most deepest, profound work that we can we can do. And you um we're actually looking at it if we widen the scope, it's really what what Natalia is discussing is inherited family trauma cycles, these cycles that we started off talking about that we just repeat. And I love that you said, you know, that receiving from your mother, you know, that receiving that unconditional love that you you were, and that's really what it is, because what happens, and let me know what you think, Natalia, is that if we didn't receive that, then how we have trouble receiving from life in general, whether and you know, just receiving inner in life, receiving love, receiving payments in business, uh receiving abundance, it affects everything exactly because we don't really have you know a model for this, we don't even know in many cases that it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

So, because a child who grows up with a mother wound is what we call um a parentified child. So the child is actually the parent, the child is the mother, so what ends up happening is that this kind of child is just keeps on giving, keeps on catering, keeps on you know pleasing, keeps on adjusting, and that's how it plays out in um in the adult life, right? Why are people you know, people pleasing and overgiving and over-explaining themselves? It's because this is what they learned, and they learned those patterns to survive because you know, child would do anything to just to appease the mother who is in distress, who is angry, who is unpredictable, and you know it's unfortunate, but that's what I have seen many, many times in friendships and in business collaborations here in Portavallta, when there's one person who just keeps on taking one. That the person is, you know, despite all of the qualities that are amazing and qualifications, who is in this subservient role and just keeps on giving and giving and giving, and just really unhealthy.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yes, this is uh that's true. I mean, I love that we are doing this around Mother's Day to help mothers because sometimes mothers who then have partnered with narcissistic men sometimes they end up losing their children to these men or losing their identity. Um, or you use the word suffering and suffering in isolation, I think, really is so so true. So, how can women move forward um and install this archetype as you so beautifully described?

SPEAKER_01 23:01

So, I guess you know what's coming to me is that a woman really has to be ready, you know. There comes a point in life when somebody just needs to say enough is enough, enough is enough, and the second part of this is a recognition that I cannot do it alone, I need help from the outside because I can see that I am replaying the same kind of way of being, the same behavior, I'm attracting the same type of people, even though I have moved to a different country. So just the real recognition of the fact that the outside help is needed, and usually, you know, at this point, we're talking about professional help, you know, somebody who has experience working with this issue, who is compassionate, non-judgmental, and who can create a safe space. So usually it's a therapist, the mental health coach, and somebody, you know, who like you have to resonate with this person, right? Because this work is really intimate, it's very deep, so it's really important to find your person, right? Because there's so so many people out there, and to really for this work to be effective, one has to feel safe, right? Because when the safety is there, and for for a woman or a man who has suffered from um this kind of like narcissistic abuse or just being stuck, there's a lot of shame, there's a lot of guilt, so one has to feel really, really safe to kind of like bring up all of that material to the surface and to look at it without judgment just to see what is there, and then once it comes to the light in the presence of a compassionate witness, you can see that actually, you know, now now that you're looking at this dark stuff, it's not that scary, and it doesn't have to control us.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

That's very hopeful, very, very hopeful that you can give women these tools in your practice because I imagine a lot of women do have complex post-traumatic stress disorder. And how does that show up? Like what would a woman be experiencing? We've talked about boundaries, we've talked about um being in narcissistic relationships, we've talked about repeating them, but um if they're breaking away, what other things might you know um show up for them? See a complex stress disorder?

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Um well, for for women who have been um in a dysfunctional relationship for a long time, I would say that many of them are actually in what um is known as functional freeze. Functional freeze. So it's kind of like it's freeze response, but it's functional. So they're still able to do things in life, but usually there's a lot of procrastination, you know. Every single task might seem like an uphill struggle, you know, everything feels hard, everything feels hard, even things that they used to love doing feel like you know they have to psych themselves up for it. So, and they might because you know, usually people don't know that this is a nervous system response, they think that they're lazy, that they lack energy, and they're very hard on themselves, and they don't, you know, they don't live their lives fully because they just everything seems hard. And then when they do push themselves to do things, they go to go to social functions, you know, to really kind of like go for a project that they've been wanting um to implement, they end up burning out. Oh, burning out, burning out, yes, because basically what needs to happen for them is that they need to retrain their nervous system from this fight, flight, or freeze response that they have entered as a result of the you know what happened in childhood and then got compounded by the abusive relationship. So they've been living basically like this, and that's why I love um gentle feminine breath work that I do, is because it retrains the nervous system to come back into a healthy state of being, which is rest and digest, so the person can just finally relax inside them inside of themselves, create inner safety, generate inner well-being and balance and harmony. You know, there is a cornucopy of like really amazing stuff inside of ourselves. Like, really, we don't need anything from the outside, but um because when we're scared, right, and that's what happens in abuse of relationships, uh, people just stop breathing. Breath is very shallow, right? Because we are, you know, like when the animal is frozen, they're pretending to be dead, right? So they're like the breathing is very shallow because they're trying to be very small, very you know, they're mimicking death, right? So that's what happens to people, they just stop breathing, and as a result, their nervous system gets stuck in you know, in the trauma basically, because the energy is not moving. That's why I love in my work, and actually, as I started talking about it, I started breathing myself. You know, it's just it's so simple, right? Breathing, but in a particular way, to just get the nervous system to come back into its natural state of relaxation instead of like always like being, you know, like so tense or yeah, that really resonates with me.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

I'm sure a lot of women it's gonna relate to that making yourself small and unseen and unheard and functionally frozen. I mean, I don't think what I'm gonna ask you is a fair question, but I think someone might wonder how long will this take if I go in to do clarity breath work? And every case is individual, I'm sure. But when when could you begin to see results or positive shifts uh doing this type of breath work?

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Well, actually, people see results after one session, they can see the difference. But like with everything else, you know, you don't go to the gym once, right? You you have to keep on going at least for a period of time to create to create change and to let it stick, right? Because sometimes like we change something really, really fast, but then we're not able to hold on to it. So I would say that um to have a series of at least concessions, of course, depending on you know personal history, but a series of concessions can really make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

That's amazing. That's such a relaxing experience to talk with you about this. Um, I feel like a couple of times you've mentioned relocation. I know you've you're very in several continents, but a couple of times you mentioned, uh, and I just want to touch on it, that when you move to a different country, which is a very relevant subject, people are moving all over the planet now, uh, and you want to reinvent yourself, but yet wherever you go, there you are. Do women become more even even more vulnerable when they make a relocation? Uh, in your view?

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Um I think so, because uh when we relocate, we are outside of our normal context. So it really makes a difference because everything is just different, right? Like let's say when we are in Canada or United States, just by seeing where people are placed, I guess, you know, within a community we can gauge a lot about them. And here, let's say in Porto Vallarta, in the expat community, um, many people are without their extended families, and um there's just you know, there's a lot of excitement because this place is so beautiful, and everyone would love to stay here. And um sometimes this excitement can really interfere with how much attention we are paying to our intuition. So I think it's really important when we find ourselves in a new context and a new culture, and you know, really I think in Portavallarte here there is like an intersection of different cultures and communities. Really take your time to get to know people. I think it's really important to slow down, to give yourself space, you know, and we don't have to be on somebody else's schedule, right? Um, all of us are different, so I think it's really important that you know when something feels off, just slow down and um don't rush into anything, and there's nothing wrong with listening to your body, to your intuition, to your sixth sense, and just saying to a person, you know, I really love this um offer, this invitation, but I would like to take a couple of days to think on this and just take your time, no rest. I think it's really important when you're new to a place.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

I think that is incredible advice for wherever you are, uh, and whatever your circumstances to slow it down and take your time. Uh that's a really, really valuable advice. For uh any other golden nuggets before we close today, Natalia, for women listening that maybe are thinking of re-entering into a relationship. Uh maybe they're aware they have a mother wound, maybe they're not. I mean, what what would you like to impart to someone? A woman listening right now. Um obviously she's here for a reason.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Well, I love what you just said, it's my favorite verb here, and listen it. Are you listening to yourself when you're speaking to a new person? And is this new person listening to you? In the conversation, who is talking? Is this person asking you questions? Because you know, I think this is the most important, I would say a red, orange, purple flag. You are speaking to somebody, but you feel more like a like a captive audience in a one-man show, and the person is just keep keeps on talking with this incredible charisma and charm, and not asking you questions about you. I think this is a very very basic basic um kind of like red flag, you know, to to recognize in uh interaction. Because you know, in a relationship, new or old, we strive for balance, we strive for harmony. It's it's a great thing to be able to express yourself, to say, you know, what's moving, what's in your heart, but it's also nice when you know the person is actually listening to you, right? And give and take, you know, you're dancing, you're not just like watching one person dancing around us and kind of like applauding them.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Clap now, we'll say clap now. Exactly. Yes, that's beautiful. Um, do you believe that we can experience unconditional love in our human experience?

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Unconditional love. Okay, I guess I would say something that is kind of controversial. I think in the relationship, especially in a romantic relationship, love is conditional. Because our resources, you know, time, energy, money, those are limited resources. So we have to choose with a lot of discernment on how we want to allocate those resources. And if the relationship is not mutual, if the relationship is not nurturing, and those are conditions, right? If we feel that we're not being appreciated, so then why keep on allocating our time, our energy, you know, that we can never get back to somebody who is not meeting our conditions. That's how I see it.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Thank you for that. Thank you for that. And um what you what is uh one wish that you would have for your fellow woman on the journey.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

My wish is just really connect with your heart and with your body and know that you are powerful, you're beautiful, no matter what age, you're wonderful, and don't allow anyone to diminish your worth, don't allow anyone to just give you little breadcrumbs of attention. If somebody is not there to receive you in all of your beauty, you know, power and just amazing amazing qualities that you have, you know, if you don't feel loved and appreciated in the company of this person, don't waste your time, just walk away.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Thank you for that, Natalia. Thank you so much for being with us and and and sharing your wisdom and your your practice. I I I really valued it, and I hope everyone listening also values it. How can folks reach out to you if they want to have a Zoom session or in person session with you?

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Uh they can simply email me. I'm reworking my website. So my email is um dr drnatalia volenberg at gmail.com. And so maybe you can post it in the show notes for the folks too.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

I am gonna put all of that in the show notes. Don't forget to subscribe and like and thank you, Dr. Lucalia. Wishing you all the very best in your life here in Puerto Vallarta and beyond.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Thank you so much, and I just love the conversation we had. I'm feeling really inspired. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

If this episode meant something to you, share it, leave us a review, stay connected for more conversations that move us forward. Until next time, I'm Barbara Le Point, and remember, keep healing forward.